z czterech stron swiata

palmela

Scientists study 'out of body experiences'
People who report seeing bright lights or tunnels as they leave their bodies in near-death experiences are having their claims treated seriously in a hospital study.
By Jessica Salter
Last Updated: 12:58AM BST 19 Sep 2008

Comments 44
Sceintists will see if consciousness continues after brain death Photo: Justin Sutcliffe
Doctors in hospitals in Britain and the US will study 1,500 heart attack patients to see if people with no heartbeat or brain activity can have "out of body" experiences.

Some people report being able to soar out of their bodies and look down on themselves and medical staff.

The study at 25 UK and US hospitals will include doctors placing images on shelves that are only visible from the ceiling to test the theory.

Dr Sam Parnia, an intensive care doctor who is heading the study, said: "If you can demonstrate that consciousness continues after the brain switches off, it allows for the possibility that the consciousness is a separate entity.

"It is unlikely that we will find many cases where this happens, but we have to be open-minded.

"And if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories.

"This is a mystery that we can now subject to scientific study."

Dr Parnia said that after a cardiac arrest, where the body is technically dead, doctors restart the heart and reverse the dying process.

He said: "What people experience during this period of cardiac arrest provides a unique window of understanding into what we are all likely to experience during the dying process."

Hospitals involved include Addenbrookes in Cambridge, University Hospital in Birmingham and the Morriston in Swansea, as well as nine hospitals in the US.

Get feed updatesComments: 44
I had a very bad road accident when I was 10 years old (now 56). I remember feeling that I was looking down but above me was a very bright light at the end of a dark tunnel. Rather like a bright moon. When I opened my eyes I felt confused as I was lying on my back.

It was many years before I heard about 'out of body' experiences and realized that that is what had happened to me.

Like others have said I no longer fear death. I was unconscious for 24 hours and have no recollection of the accident; even though I was thrown and landed on my head and had a fractured femur I was still conscious.
Christine
on September 19, 2008
at 08:49 AM
out of body exp...of course its real...death is just a frequency change.you will all see.just wait

paulie
on September 19, 2008
at 08:48 AM
This isnt a new test it was done in the seventies using cartoon charactures placed on top of cabinets etc.
As i remember it also worked in some cases people actually saw these pics and spoke about them afterwards.
Wether it wasnt taken seriously at the time i dont know but if true this is fantastic !!!
tony
on September 19, 2008
at 08:47 AM
If the scientists states that OBE does not exist simply because the person couldn't see a picture then their experiment will be flawed. The assumption is that:

1) This "reality" is the only one perceivable.

2)In addition, if the consciousness/soul of the person leaves, who is to say that it will behave like a normal person in that circumstance, let alone be looking for pictures?

3) If this happened to me, then I don't think my first priority is to prove some scientist theory and go looking for pictures; rather the profound experience would be something much more to wrap my mind around I would believe...but that's just me.

In the end maybe they will just prove nothing and draw the wrong conclusions because the experiment is flawed.
R Waldner
on September 19, 2008
at 08:46 AM
Report this commentLast time I died (by drowning)I thought "I suppose I'm going to die now." and I did.
Steve
on September 19, 2008
at 08:46 AM
Report this commentI believe it was famously said once that, yes, we ought to be open-minded but, not some much so that our brains fall out. Certainly, we must investigate these claims but let's not begin by treating what we can only presently imagine as somehow equal to what is legitimately or supportably possible. Even mere possibility requires some support. Fantasy does not equal possibility, let alone likelihood, let alone fact. One ought not stretch credibility to the point of breaking.
Ricky Barnes
on September 19, 2008
at 08:46 AM
Report this comment'no heartbeat or brain activity', sounds like your everyday politician.
oliver
on September 19, 2008
at 08:45 AM
Report this commentCertainly - and predictably - this topic has brought out, among the few balanced ones, quite an array of nutcases.
Ilmarinen
on September 19, 2008
at 08:44 AM
Report this commentWhat I find surprising is that if all these scientists' needed was for patients to see objects that they'd have to see by being out of body, then they have their evidence already! Those eye witness accounts exist already! Which makes me believe that even if they got the best results possible, they'll still try to come up with yet another alternative explanation.

They're also not taking into consideration the odds of an OBE. It's a very, very rare thing, and I'm pretty sure the odds are nowhere near 1 in 1,500. I think you'd have to add another zero or two to come close.

This is like Herod demanding of Jesus, "Do a miracle for me!" The scientists want this rare occurrence to happen in their small little box, otherwise it's just not true. Which is why I guess this article stresses the scientist's "open mindedness." Gimme a break!
Josh P
on September 19, 2008
at 08:42 AM
Report this commentDMT the near death experence without dying...Awesome!
Kevin
on September 19, 2008
at 07:51 AM
Report this comment"No, it shows the dextent that liberals will go to in a desperate attempt to invalidate religious impulses so that they can impose their New Soviet Man template on the rest of us."

Who says it has to be a religious thing? Why can't it be the next step in our evolution? Or the next step in life? Maybe humans evolve by dying. Perhaps the human body is an egg of sorts, a caterpillar before the butterfly. When we die we become the butterfly. There are things out there that we don't understand. But there is one thing I do understand and that is that all religions are a farce. Control tools used to command the masses. Believe in yourself rather than a make believe idea of what the establishment thinks you should believe.
Matt
on September 19, 2008
at 07:49 AM
Report this commentMost NDE subjects describe floating out of the body, approaching some kind of barrier or border, and then being pulled back into the body to resume life.

By definition this experience, beautiful though it may be, does not really prove immortality.

The real issue is what happens AFTER the barrier is crossed- ie after true death. By defintion, nobody gets that far and comes back to tell ius about it...

It is quite possible that the "barrier" represents the final black-out of a brain which has finally run out of oxygen, aafter a period of hypoxia-induced euphoria.

I do not claim to know the answer to this conundrum- but am willing to assert , on present evidence, that no-one else does either!

If by any chance, we proved beyond doubt that there IS a land beyoind the barrier, thjen society could be radically changed.

For then people might be faced with the certainty that some kind of rendering of accounts , or karma, would be probable after death.

What a prospect for our casual wrong-doers of all kinds...they may not all desist, but would never be able to truly enjoy the proceeds of their misdeeds. The hereafter would sow monstrous doubts within them...

The investigation is in my view, well worth the effort and intellectual ingenuity required.
Akhenaten
on September 19, 2008
at 07:48 AM
Report this commentIgnorant people! why do they need to validate this thru an experiment? Do we run experiments to figure out if the sun rises in the east?
Neel
on September 19, 2008
at 07:48 AM
Report this commentThese experiences have been happening since the dawn of time and are well documented. I have had OBE through practise and inducement, in extreme illness the links between the body and soul loosen. Modern science is so lost in rationality and anything that can't fit into that requirement is uusally dismissed. We all have souls and don't need science to prove that.
Martyn
on September 19, 2008
at 07:47 AM
Report this commentMy brother had such an experience years ago- he confirmed it for himself by asking the surgeon what various instruments that were asked for during his operation looked like- and my brother knew.

He told me, "You have nothing to worry about, you're going someplace good."

I believe him.
gbnyc
on September 19, 2008
at 07:46 AM
Report this commentit might be wise to consider the biochemical explanation for our experiences during death. there is theory that the source of our near death experiences are rooted in a chemical known as Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) which induces acute audio and visual hallucinations along with time dilation effects. in essence, your perception of time is slowed down to the point where you can live entire lifetimes from birth to death in the course of minutes, completely contrived by your own brain.

what you experience as reality is relative to your perception, and your perception is being altered by a very powerful psychotropic substance that is produced by your endocrine system. as you die, your body is shutting down its faculties and your endocrine glands are releasing their hormones and other various chemicals into the blood stream .... seems very plausible and quite fascinating to examine it from that perspective. we're merely biochemical machines, any interpretation beyond that is self-glorification.

michael, usa
Michael
on September 19, 2008
at 07:46 AM
Report this comment. When I was 16, I was in a horrible car accident with several other people. I was
taken to a military hospital where (my heart stopped) two times. I was defibrillated and brought back. I remember clearly being in the hospital talking to young people my age on top of the hospital roof. I had no injuries to my body in this state, in fact everything was very vage. I knew these people and was instructed that I must go back. I remember floating to a my school play that night, standing outside the double doors of the room where I was learning to act, watching my boyfriend Raymond talking to other people but not noticing me next to him..all I remember was I was in the hospital again and talking to the same group of people on the roof, then all of a sudden descending back into a room where I awoke several months later out of a coma.., I had no idea I had been in a car accident or had broken bones..all I knew is that I didn't want to be there. I still fear death because there are so many things I need to do before I die. I know what it is like to be left without the things you need when a parent's die and I want to make sure I leave my the people I know with plenty of security when I cross over this time.

=^..^= still suffering
Desertgirl
on September 19, 2008
at 07:46 AM
Report this commentbryan: People have known that the earth is round for pretty much all of human history, a good example of this being the ancient Greeks who managed a rather accurate estimate of the size of the earth using the idea that the Sun is so far away the rays hit the earth almost parallel and using it to judge the curvature by measuring the shadows at two distant points at the same time. Unfortunately I don't know who this 'Hubbard' your referring to is but i must admit the status quo got one thing right... he's no great shakes.
Jason
on September 19, 2008
at 07:45 AM
Report this commentI actually had an out of body experience. There is no doubt in my mind. I went to a guy who specialized in the paranormal and he told me how to do it. His instructions were: Take a shower so you're really clean and comfortable. Lay on a flat surface, preferably not a really soft bed where you might go to sleep. Use only support for your neck - not a head pillow. The key is you must get your body to go to sleep, but keep your mind awake BUT - and this is big, your mind cannot be chattering, it has to be silent. So, you breath deeply and listen to yourself breath, that focus on breathing can keep you from chattering in your head. If you start talking in your head, just re-focus and listen to your breathing again. Meanwhile starting at your toes you do the whole "my toes are comfortable and tired, they are heavy and sleepy" you do this for all your body parts slowly working up to your head. Note you do not "think" the words you just feel the part, warm and heavy and sleepy. You cannot "think" at all. You mind must be silent. It's like you are tricking your brain into thinking you are asleep, when really only your body falls asleep. The first thing you'll notice is a pressure in your abdomen that is working it's way up through your chest, your head and then you come right out the top of your head almost like a birthing process. There's even a popping sensation. It's important not to panic; it's very exciting and a bit scary and if you lose concentration the process is ruined. Like BAM you are back to square one. Even once you are out if you panic or get frightened at all you are immediately returned to your body. When I got out there was an old women sitting in the corner of the the room with my sleeping body. In never interacted with her. I flew above the earth - strangly I was on my back flying (kind of backwards superman style). There were stars all around. It was so incredible. I was totally aware the whole time that I was out of my body; there was no question that it wasn't a dream. I've tried it and came close five or six times since, but never got out. I just get so excited when I feel myself leaving that it breaks my concentration and I'm back to squre one again. FWIW, it's amazing and worth trying.
Meg Davis
on September 19, 2008
at 07:45 AM
Report this commentScientists should study "out of brain experiences" of American Republicans.
John
on September 19, 2008
at 07:42 AM
Report this commentIt is possible to induce this phenomenon. Although it is hard work and requires an open mind.

First result from google on OOBE Induce: [link widoczny dla zalogowanych]

But there are many more way better resources. I would recommend finding a good message board community if you're really interested.
Jonny
on September 19, 2008
at 07:42 AM
Report this commentMary Myers: the "tunnel visioned" scientists have never not accepted people don't have souls, hence experiments like this one. Science IS the disproving of theories, and the world is better for it.. I don't have faith in the pickings and choosings of modern christianity from a wildly paradoxical book, written over a thousand years ago, hundreds of years after the subject matter occurred. Plus it was written by over 30 authors (some of which were probably high) and then grossly edited in the early days of the catholic church (lost book of judas anyone?)
anyway sorry about the rant, I had an out of body experience the other day on acid, i could see everyone in the room, including myself, from a birds eye view. and there were streams of light with little beads and looked like an infinite amount of the same room stretching off all over the shop.. it was some good shit
Matty
on September 19, 2008
at 07:42 AM
Report this commentstop commenting on how it is a waste of money, and 'how much is this costing?!'

they are putting pictures on top of cabinets. its going to cost next to nothing.
andy
on September 19, 2008
at 07:41 AM
Report this commentThere have been many many cases
in all parts or the world, in people of all religious backgrounds where people have had a tunnel experience during NDE. There is possibility that soul lives beyond death. Many Eastern faiths like Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism etc. also believe in re-incarnation which is possible only if soul lives beyond death.
s.m. baawa
on September 19, 2008
at 07:41 AM
Report this commentScience has come very far. The things we can do were unfathomable a short time ago. For example: The internet. imagine trying to describe this to people 50 years ago.

example two: landing on the moon. What would be the reaction of people in 1908 if you said we can travel to the moon?

so to think that science will never draw conclusive facts to this is obtuse. the beauty of human nature is our ability to create and build on previous ideas.

and mary myers...you mean well, but scare me. "scientists and doctors often make discoveries and later find out they'd got it all wrong...they fumble their way through unproven theories that are later disproved"

...they are disproved by themselves!... WHEN SCIENCE ADVANCES! can you disprove heart surgery? Unfortunately, God and religion DOES NOT advance. if it did, this world would be a better place.
seth
on September 19, 2008
at 07:40 AM
Report this commentIf reports are forthcoming of OOBE perceptions of the hidden cards that would certainly DISPROVE the null hypothesis(that OOBEs are illusory.) However I'm not at all sure that would constitute a PROOF of it as Dr. Parnia seems to so blithely contend. If we accept the doctors assertion that this would constitute PROOF OF THE NULL HYPOTHESIS all we would need would be for one OOBE report no matter how tenuous or compelling that failed to report their presence to "prove" that OOBEs are illusory. And if that happens the ideological psuedo skeptics will be all over it like stink on a skunk. I put dollars to donuts that the doctor is in their camp.
Chris Lewis
on September 19, 2008
at 07:40 AM
Report this commentOur soul is our life force, nothing more. We do not possess anything inside us that comes out of the body when we die/almost die.
If you dont believe me look at:
Ezekiel 18:4, it says:

"Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul that is sinning—it itself will die"

OMG WHAT?? THE SOUL DIES??? Yes it does, it dies when we die. It is our life force, without it we are dead. And we all 'sin', were all get up to mischief one time or another, we all say and even think things we shouldnt.

With these out of body experiences the person probably does experience this. But it doesnt mean its God talking to you. When we die or are close to it our body would loose its abilty to control whats going where, i.e-hormones, chemicals, blood etc in some cases would flow in a rate much higher than normal to our brain. And our brains like OMG LOL WTF, and our brain (which at this point is hella confused) hence, we may see/hear/feel/sense ourselves dying (we can dream very real things so its not unusual for us to experience something thats notr real). Obviously it feels out of the ordinary because it is, but just because it is it doesnt mean that our "soul" or whatever you want to call it actually left the body and floated up and was watching what was going on around us.

Theres alot of lies that religions like to tell. Life after death. Hell. That everyone good goes to heaven after they die (of course it makes perfect sense for a god of love to sentence people to burn under intense agony forever). At the end of the day, all we have to base our beliefs on are the bible. Nothing more. Traditions, grandfathers beliefs mean nothing, whats in the bible is what matters. And the beliefs above are not in the bible.

Sorry for the long explanation of my beliefs...

Matt
on September 19, 2008
at 06:37 AM
Report this commentI had an overdose from drugs once and started floating and saw this grey void and something said, "Get your shit together."

I floated back down and woke up 8 hours later and lost all fear of death. I did get my shit together, though.
Jason B
on September 19, 2008
at 06:36 AM
Report this comment@ Mary "Why can't the tunnel visioned scientists just accept that people have souls, there is a God, there is life after death and there are mysteries that doctors and scientists will never be able to analyse and factualise."

Because the possibility that there is a God, and He wants to destroy the entire Earth and everything on it, and 'save' only a few that agree to be his eternal slaves is too horrible to contemplate. *shudder* Eternity. Singing His praises. After the first BILLION years singing hallelujah, what are you going to do? I mean, it doesn't end! Billions and billions and billions of years, singing 'holy holy holy, holy is the Lord' Sorry, I expect more out of a retirement plan than a song and dance routine.
Clown Soup
on September 19, 2008
at 06:34 AM
Report this commentConsidering that outer body experiences are seen in fighter pilots and in centrifuges, where people pass out due to blood loss in the brain, should be enough to suggest it's a natural bodily reaction rather than some metaphysical event that takes place at or near death. It's very interesting in either case and It's good they are willing to keep an open mind about it.
Scott
on September 19, 2008
at 06:31 AM
Report this commentfirst of all I must admit I am not a really religous person , having thought that a real loving god would not craete so much suffering in our world!
Having said that , I died on the operating table june 17 , 2008.during a heart event.
I watched the stent prosedure on a tv monitor , when the 3rd stent went into place I saw what looked like smoke around my heart. just at that time I started to lift out of my body and realised that I was or had died.
The first thing that came to mind was should I start begging for mercy from God ? I said to my self No. I have been a good , generous , loving person all of my life , an attempt for forgiveness is wrong.
Then I realised that I was on a level area above the operating room some what cloud like . that is when I questioned where is Jesus ??? where is some thing or some one to guide me ?
suddenley I realised that to my upper right rear was some one or enity sitting on a cast iron park bench with legs crossed in a casual way. Even though I could not turn to see who it was.
I knew it was a caucasion male 30 yrs +-
Who said to me "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO DIE .."
at that instant I recall white objects w/ a silver face (2)hovering above me .
when I awoke in ccu 3 hours after the event, all was well and I realied I no longer feared death Nor did i want it.
ric gorenflo sr
on September 18, 2008
at 09:14 PM
Report this commentIn my childhood I had such experiences, out of body and in tunnel with an incredible speed and a smooth ride. I had my arms strait up like superman. I never reach the light because I was pulled back. Last experience I had, I was 14 yrs old. I was floating above the Earth and seen the entire N American continent (OOB). Sometime I was guided by someone but can't turn my had to see it. The most interesting moment was when I had seen a very bright light and blue angels around when I received a message, a very strange message. The voice came from center of this light and I was told not to disturb the spirits. I don't do seance but a friend of mine did and 3 months later it happen to visit him in LA. I think it was God warning for me
Tony Montana
on September 18, 2008
at 08:31 PM
Report this commentSlowly Hubbard's observations are proven out.

I know, I know, on YOUR terms, but proven out still.

Funny that way ain't it?

Hubbard: it is a matter of simple fact, the world is round

Status Quo: Charlatan! Cultist!

Decades pass...

Status Quo: The world may possibly be round. Scientists to investigate.

Years pass...

Status Quo: Everybody knows the world is round! Hubbard is no great shakes! Charlatan! Cultist!

Oh! you are priceless

Ha Ha Ha

From Sunny California, USA
bryan
on September 18, 2008
at 08:31 PM
Report this commentDr. Parnia said, "...but we have to be open-minded" and I fully agree with him. The setup for his study might not be the best, but there are good reasons to investigate.

I've had an out-of-body experience myself, and have a theory (just that, a theory) regarding how we perceive under these conditions.

After a bad car accident, I was lying on a stretcher when a paramedic approached and said, "he's dead".

The "funny" thing is that I saw and heard it from above, like a bird sitting on a branch of a nearby tree that overshadowed the scene of accident.

So maybe we don't rely on our own five senses to perceive things in this situation. Maybe somehow the senses of other beings can be connected to our consciousness.

That could be something Dr. Parnia might want to look into, particularly if people do remember things, but not necessarily the objects in their room.
Beau
on September 18, 2008
at 08:31 PM
Report this commentDoctors/scientists should not be investigating whether there is life after death or whether we have souls. This sort of study should not be being paid for by the NHS or by any other health agency.
greenish
on September 18, 2008
at 04:47 PM
Report this commentAre we talking about brain death here, or the heart stopping beating?

What is meant by "technically dead."

Do you think, that maybe, some things aren't measurable with scientific instruments and need to be approached in other ways?

And Mary Myers, do you think
god invented the internet, or, scientists inspired by god invented the internet? Maybe the internet will be disproved!

It sounds like everyone involved in this study will be able to draw whatever conclusion best suits their own prejudice. I would have used the word belief but after reading the above comments I am not at all so inspired.
Barry Bethnall
on September 18, 2008
at 03:24 PM
Report this commentSurely these experiences are the result of a dream like state endured before BRAIN death?
After all, to prove out of body experience must also prove the existence of a set of functioning out of body sensors, i.e. organs to see with. So, if the "soul" for want of a better word can "see" light, detectors ought to be able to be designed that will "see" the soul, assuming the parameters are known in the first place.
With technology available like the Large Hadron Collider, science surely would have, one would have thought, come up with an instrument that could detect this out of brain "energy" - if indeed it exists OUTSIDE the living, thinking brain as opposed to existing INSIDE the not quite dead one.
Interesting - how much is this research grant costing the NHS, I wonder?

Darius Midwinter
on September 18, 2008
at 02:29 PM
Report this commentI too have had a similar experience and cliched though it sounds was heading out of a tunnel into a light and I knew I was dying but there was no fear - more a feeling of relief. I too no loner fear death ( nothing to do with religion I might add.
andy newell
on September 18, 2008
at 02:26 PM
Report this commentI had two experiences of this kind. I'm now 58. When I was eight I was dying of double pneumonia and entered a peaceful yellow tunnel. I don't know how long this lasted, but the illness lasted 3 months.

In my twenties I went down with cholera in Greece. I left my body and floated to the ceiling. I watched the doctor place a drip in my arm as I lay in bed and issue instructions about my care. It was restful and reassuring and not frightening in the slightest.
Bill Harding
on September 18, 2008
at 01:36 PM
Report this comment"And if no one sees the pictures, it shows these experiences are illusions or false memories"

No, it shows the dextent that liberals will go to in a desperate attempt to invalidate religious impulses so that they can impose their New Soviet Man template on the rest of us.
Greg
on September 18, 2008
at 01:35 PM
Report this commentI am sure that such experiences are genuine. When my late wife was so very ill with cancer, one evening we thought that the end was very near as my wife seemed to be slipping away peacefully. However, she rallied, and was upset that she had come round. When asked why she was so upset, she said: "I went to a white field, but there was nobody there, so I had to come back."

These things do happen.
Jim B
on September 18, 2008
at 01:35 PM
Report this comment"If you can demonstrate that consciousness continues after the brain switches off, it allows for the possibility that the consciousness is a separate entity."

Why can't the tunnel visioned scientists just accept that people have souls, there is a God, there is life after death and there are mysteries that doctors and scientists will never be able to analyse and factualise. Scientists and doctors often make discoveries and later on find out they'd got it all wrong. I don't have any faith in doctors or scientists. They fumble their way through unproven theories that are later disproved. Furthermore, I could never trust such people who believe it is ok to experiment on animals. Such people are morally sick, callous and soulless.
Mary Myers
on September 18, 2008
at 01:33 PM
Report this commentAfter a similar experience almost 40 years ago I dont fear death at all, I think it will be another lovely adventure, what I do fear are all the interventionist practices to keep me here when it is past my time.
Linda
on September 18, 2008
at 12:08 PM
Report this commentMy mother (since deceased) had 2 such events while at home and said that it was a lovely calming experience floating there and looking down at her body and that after them she did not fear death.
TV